joe and charlie's topics - tribe.net

Most helpful line in the big book

shipman — Sat, 26 Jun 2004 01:46:06 GMT

What is are the most important lines in the big book for you?/

There are a few, depends on the timing...

posted in joe and charlie - 13 replies

The Myth of the "First 100"

James — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:20:46 GMT

According the forward to the first edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous,

"We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book. "

My problem with this opening has to do with just how imprecise it is with regard to how many "recovered" alcoholics their actually were at the time the book was starting to be written in 1937. According to passages that I have read in other A.A. conference approved literature there were only about forty solid members of A.A. when the book project came into being.

From Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, p123, in "November of that year" [1937]:
Bill's writings record the day he sat in the living room with Doc, counting recoveries.
"A hard core of very grim, last-gasp cases had by then been sober a couple of years,"
he said. "all told, we figured that upwards of 40 alcoholics were staying bone dry."
Dr. Bob and Bill realized a "chain reaction" had started, and "Conceivably it could one
day circle the whole world.... We actually wept for joy," Bill said, "and Bob and Anne and
I bowed our heads in silent thanks."

From Pass It On pp177-178, "Later in 1937..."
It was on this visit that the two men conducted a "formal" review of their work of
the past two years.
What they came to realize as a result of that review was astounding: Bill may have
been stretching things when he declared that at least 20 cases had been sober a
couple of years; but by counting everybody who seemed to have found sobriety in
New York and Akron, they concluded that more than 40 alcoholics were staying dry
as a result of the program!
"As we carefully rechecked the score, it suddenly burst upon us that a new light was
shining into the dark world of the alcoholic," Bill wrote. "Despite the fact that Ebby
had slipped, a benign chain reaction, one alcoholic carrying the good news to the next,
had started outward from Dr. Bob and me. Conceivably it could one day circle the
whole world. What a tremendous thing thst realization was! At last we were sure.
There would be no more flying totally blind. We actually wept for joy, and Bob and
Anne and I bowed our heads in silent thanks."

By 1939 it is thought that the number was actually in the low seventies and that A.A.'s pioneers were using "puffery" when they decided to round the figure up to the nearest one-hundred. On one A.A. related webpage I found a list of all the members that had joined our fellowship up to 1939 the year of the Big Book's publication. As you will see when you read this list many of the original members are alledged either to have failed to achieve long term sobriety or it is stillunknown if they managed to continue to stay sober.

1934
(1) Dec 11 Bill Wilson New York Co-Founder of AA – Bill's Story
1935
(2) Jun 10 Dr.Bob Smith Akron Co-Founder of AA – Dr. Bob's Nightmare
(3) June Eddie Reilly Akron Sobered in 1949
(4) June Dr. McK. Akron Failed to gain long term sobriety
(5) June Bill Dotson Akron, Story: Alcoholics Anonymous Number Three – 2nd Ed
(6) July Ernie Gailbraith Akron The Seven Month Slip – (An In-and-Outer Slipper)
(7) Aug Wes Wyman Akron Sobered in 1949
(8) Sept Hank Parkhurst, New York The Unbeliever – 4 yrs. Sober, Drunk Sept 1939
(9) Sept Phil Smith Akron
Oct John Henry "Fitz" Mayo New York, founder AA Washington DC metro area, story: Our Southern Friend
(10) 1935 Freddie B. New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(11) 1935 Brooke B. New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(12) 1935 Bill R. New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(13) 1935 Ernest M. New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(14) 1935 Herb D. New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(15) 1935 Alec New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(16) 1935 Russ R. New York, Original account, Failed, see footnote.[1]
(17) 1935 Bill C. New York, Committed suicide after living at the Clinton Street house for a year.[2]
(18) 1935 Victor New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(19) 1935 Lil New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
1936
(20) Jan Harold Grisinger Akron
(21) Feb Walter Bray Akron The Back-Slider
Marie Bray, Story: AN ALCOHOLIC'S WIFE
(22) Apr Joe Doeppler Akron, Story: The European Drinker
(23) Apr Myron Williams New York Story: Hindsight
(24) July Paul Stanley Akron, Story: Truth Freed Me
(25) Sept J. D. Holmes Akron, co-founder, AA Evansville, first AA group in Indiana.
(26) Sept Holland Spencer Akron
(27) Dec Bob Oviatt Akron, Story: The Salesman
1937
(28) Feb Dick Stanley Akron, Story: The Car Smasher
(29) Feb Don McLean New York
(30) Feb Bill Rudell New York, Story: A Business Man's Recovery
(31) Feb Lloyd Tate Akron, Story: The Rolling Stone
(32) Feb Bill Van Horn Akron, Story: Ward Of The Probate Court
(33) Mar Harry Zoellers Akron A Close Shave
(34) Mar Florence Rankin New York, Story: A Feminine Victory - Returned to drinking & suicide 1939[3]
(35) Apr Earl Treat, Akron, Story: He Sold Himself Short, Second through Fourth Edition
(36) Apr[Feb] Bob Evans, Akron[4]
(37) May Wally Gillam Akron, Story: Fired Again
(38) May Charlie Simondsord, Alt spelling: Charlie Simonson Akron, Story: Riding The Rods
(39) July Jim Scott Akron, Story: Traveler, Editor, Scholar
(40) July Paul Kellogg New York Failed to gain long term sobriety
(41) Sept Bill Jones Cleveland
(42) Oct Jack Williams New York
(43) Nov Tom Lucas Akron, Story: My Wife And I
(44) Dec Ned Poynter New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(45) 1937 Jane S. Cleveland Sober a few months, Failed to gain long term sobriety
1938
(46) Jan Jim Burwell New York, Founder, AA Philadelpia and Harrisburg PA. Slipped, DOS June 15, 1938 The Vicious Cycle – 2nd through 4th Ed.
(47) Feb: Clarence Snyder, Cleveland. Story: Home Brewmeister
(48) Feb Charlie Jones Akron
(49) Feb Ray Campbell New York, Story: An Artist's Concept
(50) Feb Van Wagner New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(51) Feb Jack Darrow New York Continued Sobriety Unknown[5]
(52) Feb Norman Hunt New York / Darien, CT, Story: Educated Agnostic
(53) Feb Harold Sears New York, Story: Smile With Me, At Me
(54) Apr Capt. Coxe New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(55) May Abby Goldrick Akron, Story: He Thought He Could Drink Like A Gentleman, Second and Third Editions
(56) May Bert Taylor New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(57) May Bob Taylor New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(58) June George Williams New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(59) June Joseph Taylor New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(60) June Harry Brick New York, Story: A Different Slant
(61) June Ralph Furlong New York, Springfield, MA, Story: Another Prodigal Story
(62) July Bud Emerson New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(63) Sept Archie Trowbridge Akron and Founder, AA Detroit. Story: The Fearful One, The Man Who Mastered Fear
(64) Sept Horace Maher New York, Story: On His Way
(65) Oct John Dolan Akron
(66) Dec Vaughn Phelps Akron
(67) Dec Horace Crystal New York Continued Sobriety Unknown
(68) 1938 Bill H. Cleveland failed, later permanent sobriety
1939
(69) Jan Pat Cooper Calif., Story The Lone Endeavor
September 13, 1939: Sylvia Kaufman, Chicago. Story: The Keys of the Kingdom, Second through Fourth Editions[6](Honorable mention)
Unknown Sobriety Dates
(70) Delmar Tyron Akron Aces Full, Seven-Eleven
(71) Doc Moran Akron Continued Sobriety Unknown
(72) Harold Grissom Akron Continued Sobriety Unknown
(73) Dr. Howard S. Akron Continued Sobriety Unknown

So why does this bother me? It bothers me because the phrase "the first one hundred" is often thrown around at A.A. meetings and on the internet. And this phrase is almost always followed up by placing tremendous emphasis on the following which "TO SHOW OTHER ALCOHOLICS PRECISELY HOW WE RECOVERED."

First off it can be argued that the authors of the Big Book don't really tell us PRECISELY how the recovered because the 12 steps that they claim they took had not even been codified or written down yet. Bill Wislon did not write the 12 Steps until he started to write the 5th Chapter of the Big Book. Most of these people had already "recovered" prior to there being written! Therefore,the recovery path A.A.'s original members actually followed could not have been the 12 Steps in their final form. What they actually used to get (and hopefully stay sober) was based on six concepts that were derived for the teachings of the Oxford Group as they were passed along word of mouth. Although one can find several versions of these six concepts they were generally (not precisely) something like the following lists of ideas or steps.

1. Complete deflation.
2. Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power.
3. Moral inventory.
4. Confession.
5. Restitution.
6. Continued work with other alcoholics.

The second thing in this sentence I take issue with is the word "recovered" since so many of these orginal members seemed to have difficulty with achieving long term permanent sobriety. Lastly I would like to know how one can rely one these original members to tell us "PRECISELY" how they "RECOVERED" when they can't even seem to tell us "PRECISELY" how many of them there actually were!

What these original members can tell us is GENERALLY how they managed to achieve sobriety and they can SUGGEST some guides to progress. Nothing more in my opinion.

Thank you for letting me share.

Jim F. Grateful Sober Alcoholic, DOS Oct. 4th 1987

posted in joe and charlie - 1 reply

tapes

sisterlithium — Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:59:36 GMT

has anybody here listened to any of the joe and charlie tapes? how about big book studies or situations where you've read or learned about AA history?

posted in joe and charlie - 12 replies

Good Oldtimer

farewell and be well :^D — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:29:33 GMT

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Daniel J. Thanks to a power greater than myself and the program and fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, I have been able not to drink or use drugs, one day at a time for almost 7,000 days -- that's a little over nineteen years. I am very active in AA. I attend a meeting every day, work the 12 steps on a continuous basis, work with three sponsees and a number of newcomers, have a sponsor who has a sponsor, and I do my best to keep the Big Book a working part of my conscious mind. I read it a lot, and I love going to Big Book study meetings. I love Bill and Bob and all the Founders, and I think how hard they had to work to carry the message so that the hand of AA was there for me when I was ready to take it. I take this program very seriously because I have seen hundreds of times where this progressive and inevitably fatal disease takes us. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face, I know; so I work very diligently with newcomers and other drunks. It's been my great privilege to have had the wonderful AAs in my life who have taught me everything that this hopeless, helpless drunk has needed to know about my life. And I still am loving every day of my sobriety, good and bad. I would never want to disappoint the Wilsons and the Smiths!

I look forward to getting to know you better. HOW, Dan

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

my healing tribe art project needs your comments

bragitta — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:26:02 GMT

I am creating a healing art experiment on my tribe page
where I create a piece of art work and ask a question
and then depending on the comments and response it gets
will inspire future art pieces and questions

so
please hop on over to my tribe page
and leave a comment or 2 (or 3)
even become a new friend to this art experiment of mine

thanks
bragitta

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

spiritual experience, God, and pink clouds

sisterlithium — Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:06:19 GMT

heard a tape last night from a guy in texas who was very passionate about the spiritual experience, getting close to God, and he also talked about pink clouds. he was very intense about what was wrong with AA, how we avoid talking about God and the spiritual experience, instead focusing on "making meetings" and watching people drift away and relapse. I know this is true to some extent, although some people focus on meetings AND the steps like I did.

He emphasized that the "educational variety" is often a way to justify not working the steps thoroughly in order to have a "real" awakening. People really pressured me early on to read the Big Book and work the steps, and even talked about being "happy, joyous and free" which sounded totally insane to me!

He talked about the pink cloud as being God's grace and should be treated as such, not as some joke and that people are just going to fall off and enter the "real world". The pink cloud is what may keep people here long enought to go through the steps.

When people focused on spiritual experience, God, and the steps the success rate in AA seems to have been immensely higher. This is disputed but the bottom line what does the AA Big Book say? We recover. I am not recoverING. I have recovered, I have had a spirtual experience as a result of the steps.

If people are not real alcoholics, if they don't need the steps or God to keep them sober, that's fine, they should be careful about what they say in meetings because there are people there who are real alcoholics.

For myself I also think it is important, to remember that if someone, like friends of mine, with a few years under their belt, decide they don't need meetings anymore, then maybe that is a good thing. Maybe we don't need to hear their non-AA related message. Maybe we don't need people in AA who are not totally committed, who have not had a life-changing spiritual experience or if they have maybe don't give AA the credit. We need to help newcomers get sober and stay sober. I am not here to convince old-timers that they need AA or that AA needs them. Neither may be true.

It was a good tape, he is funny as hell. Let me know if you want more info.

posted in joe and charlie - 7 replies

Hello, Im john and Im an Alcoholic - Same old stuff, I put down the bottle, and the life continues!

John — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 05:14:09 GMT

Did I think it would be different? I had hoped. And in fact it is. I am much better off now. At least I know its happening and hopefully I can do something to correct it. And I did not die! I drove myself to the emergency room, with 15 min’s to spare before my heart stopped. Saved my own life at 3 years sober, I have to remember that.
Sometimes all I can see are my character defects. But it is discouraging when the same old problems that were in the drunken life show that they are still alive and well. Ugh!!

Thanks

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration,

jamesptyler — Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:57:44 GMT

Subject: Dr. Silkworth Birthday Celebration, W.Long Branch NJ, 7/22/06
(Update)

You are cordially invited to the third annual Dr. Silkworth birthday
celebration!

Saturday, July 22, 2006 at 3:00PM (rain date July 29, 2006)

At his gravesite in Glenwood Cemetery, Route 71 (Monmouth Rd.), West
Long Branch NJ.

Speakers: Barbara Silkworth (a family member) and Mitchell K. (author of
“How It Worked - The Story of Clarence H. Snyder & the Early Days of AA
in Cleveland”)

Dr. William Duncan Silkworth is the author of the two letters in the
“Doctor’s Opinion” in the Big Book “Alcoholics Anonymous” and is known as
a friend to millions of alcoholics worldwide. He worked with Bill Wilson, AA’s
co-founder in N.Y.C., after Bill finally got sober in 1934. He gave deep
understanding and great encouragement to an infant society in the days
when a lack of understanding or a word of discouragement might easily have
killed it. He freely risked his professional reputation to champion an
unprecedented spiritual answer to the medical enigma and the human
tragedy of alcoholism. Without his blessing, our faith might well have died in
its birth. He was a luminous exception to the rule that only an alcoholic
understands an alcoholic. He knew us better than we knew ourselves,
better than we know each other. Many of us felt that his medical skill, great
as that was, was not at all the full measure of his stature. Dr. Silkworth
was something that it is difficult even to mention in these days. He was a
saintly man. He stood in an unusual relationship to truth. He was able
to see the truth of a man, when that truth was deeply hidden from the man
himself and from everyone else. He was able to save lives that were
otherwise beyond help of any kind. Such a man cannot really die. We wish
to honor this man, a gentle doctor with white hair and china blue eyes.

Dr. Silkworth lived on Chelsea Avenue in Long Branch, attended Long
Branch High School where he has been inducted in that school’s Hall of Fame,
graduated from Princeton University, and lived for a while in Little
Silver. He was born on July 22, 1873 and died on March 22, 1951.

PLEASE BE SURE TO BRING A LAWN CHAIR OR SOMETHING TO SIT ON.
If you have any questions please call Barefoot Bill at 201-232-8749
(cell).

Directions:
Take the Garden State Parkway (north or south) to Exit 105 (Route 36),
continue on Route 36 approximately 2.5 to 3 miles through 5 traffic
lights (passing Monmouth Mall, two more shopping plazas, and several automobile
dealerships). Watch for green road signs stating “Route 71 South, West
Long Branch and Asbury Park” (this is before the sixth light). Take this
Turnoff to the right, past Carriage Square and bear right onto Route 71
(Monmouth Road.) Glenwood Cemetery appears very quickly on the left. The entrance
is marked by two stone pillars and the name. Once inside the cemetery,
bear left, go up the hill and make the first right (a hard right). The
gravesite is near the first tree on the right.

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

introductions

sisterlithium — Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:03:48 GMT

hey everybody: howz about we all introduce ourselve, sobriety date, etc, anything you want to mention. I got sober 5.4.95 in the Akron Ohio area, NE Ohio, I currently live and go to meetings in San Francisco although my home group is still in the East Bay where I lived for 3 yrs. Tues night 6:30 at 2910. I'm a secretary there, I sponsor a bit. Right now I'm just trying to get to more meetings in SF.

I just started a new job which has been mucho stressful. I live with two sober guys, which is great. I have a girlfriend who drinks about 3 glasses of whatever a month. She is mainly addicted to dvds. so tell us about yourself! :-)

posted in joe and charlie - 7 replies

some fun and interesting reading

sisterlithium — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 07:12:11 GMT

Reading more historical stuff lately, reading about the 4 absolutes again and the Oxford Group. Started reading this biography of Clarence S. which is very engrossing. He started AA in Cleveland and was in the 1st edition of the BB as the "Home Brewmeister". I highly recommend checking it out, with the caveat that all history is imperfect. Grain of salt, as it were.

http://aabbsg.de/chs/index.htm

Here is a sample, after due to a conflict between the Catholic Church and the Oxford Group, the first actual AA meeting happens:

Chapter 5

HOW IT WORKED

Proceed with imagination and real faith- expect things to happen. If you EXPECT things to happen, they DO happen. This is based on FAITH IN GOD, not on our own strength. A negative attitude toward ourselves or others cuts off God's power; it is evidence of lack of faith in His power. If you go into a situation admitting defeat, of course you lose.

Anne Smith's Oxford Group Diary

Chapter 5.1

HOW IT WORKED

The First A.A. Meeting in the World

A.A. spoke to us, not with the accusing voice of those who had never known the tragedy of alcoholism, who had never suffered distraction; it spoke to us out of the experience of those who had suffered just as we had suffered and who had found how to break the chains. It told us simply that we had been trying to meet our problems without surrendering those things that keep us tied to the wheel. We had been trying to pull ourselves together with a will too shattered to be able to succeed.

Cleveland's Central Bulletin, Volume #1, Number 11, August 1943

On May 11, 1939, one month after the book had been published, a meeting was held. It was a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. It was a meeting held by, and for alcoholics and their families only. Historian, Mary C. Darrah, wrote:

"In the years 1935-1939, the Oxford meetings provided a group experience for the early alcoholics. A.A. did not meet as a separate group officially named Alcoholics Anonymous until May 1939 at the home of Abby G. in Cleveland."

Nell Wing* stated in an interview with the author: "Clarence was rightly the first to use the initials, A.A." She was, however, referring to Clarence's use of the initials "A.A." and not to his use of the name Alcoholics Anonymous.

* Secretary of Bill Wilson from 1947 to Bill's death in 1971, and A.A.'s first Archivist

A fellowship of anonymous drunks had in fact existed prior to May 11, 1939. But it was the Cleveland meeting which first used the name Alcoholics Anonymous, that it took from the book. Cleveland's May, 1939 meeting is the first documented meeting which used the name Alcoholics Anonymous, separate and apart from the Oxford Group.

According to the records of the Cleveland Central Committee's Recording Statistician, Norman E. (which were compiled in the middle of June 1942) the following took place:

On 5/10/39, nine members left the Akron meeting of the Oxford Group to form the G. group. The location of the group was 2345 Stillman Road, Cleveland Heights, Cleveland, Ohio. The sponsors of the group were; Clarence Snyder, Al G., Geo. J. McD., John D., Dr. Harry N., Lee L., Vaughn P., Chas. J., and Lloyd T. The first secretary of the group was Clarence Snyder.

The preceding information was taken from a survey form sent out to all Cleveland groups on June 18, 1942. The G. group information was filled out and signed by, Albert R. G., and dated June 24, 1942. These original forms are part of a collection of original Cleveland memorabilia and records in the possession of Clarence H. Snyder and which he delivered to the author prior to his death.

The first A.A. meeting in the world was not uneventful. According to Clarence, the entire group from Akron showed up the next night and tried to "discourage" the Cleveland meeting from happening. Discourage was a very mild term, according to Clarence; and he used it sarcastically. He said:

"The whole group descended upon us and tried to break up our meeting. One guy was gonna whip me. I want you to know that this was all done in pure Christian love.. A.A. started in riots. It rose in riots."

Clarence was often quoted as saying, "If you don't stand for something, you're liable to fall for anything." And on May 11, 1939, Clarence stood his ground, as did the other members of that first A.A. group. Thus A.A., as such, began in Cleveland, Ohio.

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

10 years and a story

sisterlithium — Thu, 05 May 2005 04:53:15 GMT

Well, I have ten years today, which is great, although I don't *feel* so great for various reasons. Anyway, I ran into a guy recently who had 51 yrs, and his sponsor had been sponsored by Dr. Bob. He said that his sponsor had gotten sober in Dr. Bob's house and had slept in his daughter's upstairs bedroom, like many drunks did, and he puked all over her bed. It was amazing, as I have sat on that bed, and never thought about it covered in something that was a staple in my alcoholic life.

I asked him how he defined faith. He said something like "accepting what is in the moment". I think I heard that he started or was a part of young people's in LA, he was 16 when he got sober, I think.

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

hey it's me again

sisterlithium — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:09:45 GMT

My old sponsor back in Ohio has been in a nursing home for over a year now, is very miserable and depressed and doesn't know if and when he will get out. He's been in a wheelchair, had a stroke, and other problems. He's very important to me: his name is Terry, if you could say some prayers for him. Thanks!

posted in joe and charlie - 3 replies

this line:

sisterlithium — Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:55:05 GMT

this line in the big book sortof jumped out at me recently. I have a friend that reads the book every year, which I am attempting to do. It ain't easy...anyway:

pg. 15 (end of Bill's story): "We meet frequently so that newcomers may find the fellowship they seek. At these informal gatherings one may often see from 50 to 200 persons."

Meetings are not mentioned much in the book, esp. in the first 164. I guess this is one of those times.

And this reference to meetings, less directly:

"I know I must get along without liquor, but how can I? Have you a sufficient substitute? Yes it is a substitute and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous." p. 152.

I've been thinking about that passage a lot lately, as I go to meetings and have contact with members outside the rooms, in particular my roommates who are both sober AA members. Of course, this does not preclude the steps but in fact follows them. It's all good I suppose :-)

I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this or anything that pops into your head.

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

the tapes online

sisterlithium — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:10:02 GMT

I can't listen to mp3 files on my laptop, so if anyone could download one and see if it's solid, let me know:

http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=13

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

hey all

sisterlithium — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:05:15 GMT

hey Quinn, welcome.

more good stuff:

http://aabbsg.de/oppf/gresham.htm

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

new guy, not so new

sisterlithium — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:18:09 GMT

hey I noticed my friend Dave joined. Hi Dave!

posted in joe and charlie - 1 reply

four absolutes

sisterlithium — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:48:41 GMT

these were from the oxford group but this is a link to an old AA pamphlet which I believe is out of print:

http://silkworth.net/aahistory/4absolutes.html

it's fun to remind myself of just how far off I am today... :-)

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

non AA material

shipman — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:10:24 GMT

I am sorry to check this tribe to have the political listing, not thinking of big picture when I did. I deleted it. No excuse but it is a new tribe tool and I tested it to hastedly.

Thanks for the note about it!

Love you guys...see I'm still a drunk

posted in joe and charlie - 0 replies

Hi All!

Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:38:42 GMT

New to this tribe.

I have been too busy, but here I am...

Favorite line in the Big Book? That's easy.

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average."

This means a lot to me, because of all the failure I had in the past.

Kathleen

posted in joe and charlie - 3 replies